<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/" > <channel><title>Comments on: Why Can&#8217;t We Get All Our Electricity from Wind?</title> <atom:link href="http://www.globalwarming.org/2012/10/04/why-cant-we-get-all-our-electricity-from-wind/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.globalwarming.org/2012/10/04/why-cant-we-get-all-our-electricity-from-wind/</link> <description>Climate Change News &#38; Analysis</description> <lastBuildDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2013 05:41:58 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=</generator> <item><title>By: Production Tax Credit: Remove Big Wind&#8217;s Training Wheels, Report Argues</title><link>http://www.globalwarming.org/2012/10/04/why-cant-we-get-all-our-electricity-from-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-72917</link> <dc:creator>Production Tax Credit: Remove Big Wind&#8217;s Training Wheels, Report Argues</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 21:19:09 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.globalwarming.org/?p=15199#comment-72917</guid> <description>[...] Cost Subsidy for Low Value PowerU.S. Biofuel Expansion Cost Developing Countries $6.6 Billion: TuftsWhy Can&#8217;t We Get All Our Electricity from Wind?House Conservatives Draw a Line on Wind Tax CreditPolling Purple, Spinning [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Cost Subsidy for Low Value PowerU.S. Biofuel Expansion Cost Developing Countries $6.6 Billion: TuftsWhy Can&#8217;t We Get All Our Electricity from Wind?House Conservatives Draw a Line on Wind Tax CreditPolling Purple, Spinning [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Marlo Lewis</title><link>http://www.globalwarming.org/2012/10/04/why-cant-we-get-all-our-electricity-from-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-72606</link> <dc:creator>Marlo Lewis</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 20:26:17 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.globalwarming.org/?p=15199#comment-72606</guid> <description>Steve,Nearly all policy studies are undertaken by researchers with a bias or agenda. After all, few people do policy-relevant research just to satisfy intellectual curiosity. Plus, rigorous quantitative analysis is expensive  and somebody has to pay for it. That &quot;somebody&quot; is almost always not an honest broker but a stakeholder -- an organization with a material stake in the outcome of the policy battle.Consider the American Wind Energy Association (AWEA), which also sponsors studies. AWEA members benefit directly from market-rigging interventions like renewable electricity mandates and the wind energy production tax credit (PTC). Those policies transfer wealth from ratepayers and taxpayers to wind energy producers. So what are the odds AWEA would ever pay for a study critical of mandates and the PTC?Nor should we look to &quot;the government&quot; for an unbiased assessment. The Department of Energy&#039;s National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) produces lots of studies and reports on wind energy. It too is a dog in the fight. The agency&#039;s budget and very existence ultimately depend on persuading policymakers and the public that renewable energy and the policies supporting it are a great bargain. Don&#039;t expect to find a bias-free zone there.In short, policymaking, like litigation, is an adversarial process. We know in advance that the lawyer is an advocate, not an honest broker, and argues in the interest of his client. That, however, does not excuse the jury from listening to both sides of a controversy and attempting to reach a judgment based on the evidence presented.Whether the Reason Foundation study makes a contribution to the debate or is deceptive garbage depends entirely on the validity of its assumptions, methods, data, and conclusions. You have not offered any evidence rebutting it. Dismissing the study out of hand because Reason gets funding from Koch is to argue ad hominem. It&#039;s an argument not based on facts or logic but your particular bias!Some quick additional points. Wind energy is one of the least cost-effective ways to improve air quality. It is much more efficient to attack air pollution directly via emission controls than to impose renewable energy quota. Nor is wind energy a cost-effective carbon mitigation policy. That&#039;s why the Waxman-Markey bill included a national renewable electricity mandate in addition to a cap-and-trade program. Waxman and Markey are big boosters of wind, but they knew that simply putting a price on carbon to penalize fossil-fuel electric generation isn&#039;t enough to make wind energy competitive.As for $10 billion in oil subsidies, oil is a bit player in U.S. electric supply and has been since the 1970s. So even if oil gets all the subsidies you claim, that&#039;s not a good reason to subsidize wind.Moreover, most of the tax breaks often condemned as subsidies to &quot;Big Oil&quot; are in fact broadly available to many industries, as William O&#039;Keefe explains (http://energy.nationaljournal.com/2012/10/should-oil-and-naturalgas-tax.php#2253278). For example, the Sec. 199 manufacturing tax credit is available to all domestic U.S. manufacturers. Similarly, the protection against double taxation for U.S. oil companies with operations overseas applies to all U.S. firms. The tax break for &quot;intangible drilling costs&quot; applies to drilling operations a basic principle of the tax code, namely, expenses are deducted from revenues to determine taxable income. The depletion allowance tax may or may not be a good idea, but it applies to all forms of mining, not just oil and gas.O&#039;Keefe used to be an executive of the American Petroleum Institute, so his bias may offend your bias. To repeat, that does not tell us whether his argument is valid or not, because identifying bias is not refutation.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p><p>Nearly all policy studies are undertaken by researchers with a bias or agenda. After all, few people do policy-relevant research just to satisfy intellectual curiosity. Plus, rigorous quantitative analysis is expensive  and somebody has to pay for it. That &#8220;somebody&#8221; is almost always not an honest broker but a stakeholder &#8212; an organization with a material stake in the outcome of the policy battle.</p><p>Consider the American Wind Energy Association (AWEA), which also sponsors studies. AWEA members benefit directly from market-rigging interventions like renewable electricity mandates and the wind energy production tax credit (PTC). Those policies transfer wealth from ratepayers and taxpayers to wind energy producers. So what are the odds AWEA would ever pay for a study critical of mandates and the PTC?</p><p>Nor should we look to &#8220;the government&#8221; for an unbiased assessment. The Department of Energy&#8217;s National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) produces lots of studies and reports on wind energy. It too is a dog in the fight. The agency&#8217;s budget and very existence ultimately depend on persuading policymakers and the public that renewable energy and the policies supporting it are a great bargain. Don&#8217;t expect to find a bias-free zone there.</p><p>In short, policymaking, like litigation, is an adversarial process. We know in advance that the lawyer is an advocate, not an honest broker, and argues in the interest of his client. That, however, does not excuse the jury from listening to both sides of a controversy and attempting to reach a judgment based on the evidence presented.</p><p>Whether the Reason Foundation study makes a contribution to the debate or is deceptive garbage depends entirely on the validity of its assumptions, methods, data, and conclusions. You have not offered any evidence rebutting it. Dismissing the study out of hand because Reason gets funding from Koch is to argue ad hominem. It&#8217;s an argument not based on facts or logic but your particular bias!</p><p>Some quick additional points. Wind energy is one of the least cost-effective ways to improve air quality. It is much more efficient to attack air pollution directly via emission controls than to impose renewable energy quota. Nor is wind energy a cost-effective carbon mitigation policy. That&#8217;s why the Waxman-Markey bill included a national renewable electricity mandate in addition to a cap-and-trade program. Waxman and Markey are big boosters of wind, but they knew that simply putting a price on carbon to penalize fossil-fuel electric generation isn&#8217;t enough to make wind energy competitive.</p><p>As for $10 billion in oil subsidies, oil is a bit player in U.S. electric supply and has been since the 1970s. So even if oil gets all the subsidies you claim, that&#8217;s not a good reason to subsidize wind.</p><p>Moreover, most of the tax breaks often condemned as subsidies to &#8220;Big Oil&#8221; are in fact broadly available to many industries, as William O&#8217;Keefe explains (<a href="http://energy.nationaljournal.com/2012/10/should-oil-and-naturalgas-tax.php#2253278" rel="nofollow">http://energy.nationaljournal.com/2012/10/should-oil-and-naturalgas-tax.php#2253278</a>). For example, the Sec. 199 manufacturing tax credit is available to all domestic U.S. manufacturers. Similarly, the protection against double taxation for U.S. oil companies with operations overseas applies to all U.S. firms. The tax break for &#8220;intangible drilling costs&#8221; applies to drilling operations a basic principle of the tax code, namely, expenses are deducted from revenues to determine taxable income. The depletion allowance tax may or may not be a good idea, but it applies to all forms of mining, not just oil and gas.</p><p>O&#8217;Keefe used to be an executive of the American Petroleum Institute, so his bias may offend your bias. To repeat, that does not tell us whether his argument is valid or not, because identifying bias is not refutation.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Steve</title><link>http://www.globalwarming.org/2012/10/04/why-cant-we-get-all-our-electricity-from-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-72098</link> <dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2012 16:41:44 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.globalwarming.org/?p=15199#comment-72098</guid> <description>First off William Korchinski is a former oil industry chemical engineer -- a smart guy no doubt -- but suspect as an unbiased expert on wind and energy in general. Secondly Reason Foundation that paid for the report has a bias against alternative energy since its funders are mainly in the oil industry ie the Koch brothers and Exxon.Korchinski conclusions are accordingly suspect for a number of reasons. He fails to acknowledge that the fossil fuel industry gets at least $10 billion in annual subsidies http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies/ He fails to account for the pollution costs of fossil fuel energy including carbon pollution.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off William Korchinski is a former oil industry chemical engineer &#8212; a smart guy no doubt &#8212; but suspect as an unbiased expert on wind and energy in general. Secondly Reason Foundation that paid for the report has a bias against alternative energy since its funders are mainly in the oil industry ie the Koch brothers and Exxon.</p><p>Korchinski conclusions are accordingly suspect for a number of reasons. He fails to acknowledge that the fossil fuel industry gets at least $10 billion in annual subsidies <a href="http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies/" rel="nofollow">http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies/</a><br /> He fails to account for the pollution costs of fossil fuel energy including carbon pollution.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Michael Goggin, AWEA</title><link>http://www.globalwarming.org/2012/10/04/why-cant-we-get-all-our-electricity-from-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-72044</link> <dc:creator>Michael Goggin, AWEA</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 15:39:28 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.globalwarming.org/?p=15199#comment-72044</guid> <description>If you read the Reason Foundation&#039;s report, it actually says that wind energy can provide a large share of our electricity (at least 50%) and that wind&#039;s benefits are roughly as large as expected (9% reductions in pollution when we get 10% of our electricity from wind, 18% reductions at 20% wind, and 54% reductions at 50% wind). That&#039;s even after the report uses a seriously flawed methodology that overstates the challenges of integrating wind onto the grid and understates wind&#039;s benefits. For more, read the explanation here: http://www.awea.org/blog/index.cfm?customel_dataPageID_1699=18996Michael Goggin, American Wind Energy Association</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you read the Reason Foundation&#8217;s report, it actually says that wind energy can provide a large share of our electricity (at least 50%) and that wind&#8217;s benefits are roughly as large as expected (9% reductions in pollution when we get 10% of our electricity from wind, 18% reductions at 20% wind, and 54% reductions at 50% wind). That&#8217;s even after the report uses a seriously flawed methodology that overstates the challenges of integrating wind onto the grid and understates wind&#8217;s benefits. For more, read the explanation here:<br /> <a href="http://www.awea.org/blog/index.cfm?customel_dataPageID_1699=18996" rel="nofollow">http://www.awea.org/blog/index.cfm?customel_dataPageID_1699=18996</a></p><p>Michael Goggin,<br /> American Wind Energy Association</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Weekly Climate and Energy News Roundup &#124; Watts Up With That?</title><link>http://www.globalwarming.org/2012/10/04/why-cant-we-get-all-our-electricity-from-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-71967</link> <dc:creator>Weekly Climate and Energy News Roundup &#124; Watts Up With That?</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2012 00:07:50 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.globalwarming.org/?p=15199#comment-71967</guid> <description>[...] http://www.globalwarming.org/2012/10/04/why-cant-we-get-all-our-electricity-from-wind/ [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://www.globalwarming.org/2012/10/04/why-cant-we-get-all-our-electricity-from-wind/" rel="nofollow">http://www.globalwarming.org/2012/10/04/why-cant-we-get-all-our-electricity-from-wind/</a> [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Kirby Palm</title><link>http://www.globalwarming.org/2012/10/04/why-cant-we-get-all-our-electricity-from-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-71963</link> <dc:creator>Kirby Palm</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2012 08:43:32 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.globalwarming.org/?p=15199#comment-71963</guid> <description>Excellent.  The one thing I would have added would have been to point out that you don&#039;t just need a lake for pumped storage, you need TWO lakes at different elevations.  This means that you have the added technical challenge that one of these large lakes needs to be on top of a mountain.  And when utilized, the levels of both lakes are going to change dramatically in a very short period of time.  You&#039;re not looking at construction of a peaceful, serene fishing spot like you are for damming up rivers to power hydroelectric plants.For typos, you say PJM several times instead of PMJ.  I don&#039;t even know which one is correct at this point.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent.  The one thing I would have added would have been to point out that you don&#8217;t just need a lake for pumped storage, you need TWO lakes at different elevations.  This means that you have the added technical challenge that one of these large lakes needs to be on top of a mountain.  And when utilized, the levels of both lakes are going to change dramatically in a very short period of time.  You&#8217;re not looking at construction of a peaceful, serene fishing spot like you are for damming up rivers to power hydroelectric plants.</p><p>For typos, you say PJM several times instead of PMJ.  I don&#8217;t even know which one is correct at this point.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Why Wind Won&#8217;t Work &#124; The Global Warming Policy Foundation</title><link>http://www.globalwarming.org/2012/10/04/why-cant-we-get-all-our-electricity-from-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-71962</link> <dc:creator>Why Wind Won&#8217;t Work &#124; The Global Warming Policy Foundation</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2012 07:49:09 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.globalwarming.org/?p=15199#comment-71962</guid> <description>[...] The report, The Limits of Wind Power by William Korchinski (PDF), contains several sobering graphics. Figure 6 from the study shows how variable (intermittent) the wind can be, reducing output as much as 16 MW per minute. _Marlo Lewis [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The report, The Limits of Wind Power by William Korchinski (PDF), contains several sobering graphics. Figure 6 from the study shows how variable (intermittent) the wind can be, reducing output as much as 16 MW per minute. _Marlo Lewis [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Why Can’t We Get All Our Electricity from Wind? &#124; EPA Abuse</title><link>http://www.globalwarming.org/2012/10/04/why-cant-we-get-all-our-electricity-from-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-71925</link> <dc:creator>Why Can’t We Get All Our Electricity from Wind? &#124; EPA Abuse</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 00:11:05 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.globalwarming.org/?p=15199#comment-71925</guid> <description>[...] Read more at GlobalWarming.org. By Marlo Lewis. [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Read more at GlobalWarming.org. By Marlo Lewis. [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: James Rust</title><link>http://www.globalwarming.org/2012/10/04/why-cant-we-get-all-our-electricity-from-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-71924</link> <dc:creator>James Rust</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 00:06:09 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.globalwarming.org/?p=15199#comment-71924</guid> <description>The problems of large-scale wind energy reminds me of a long ago remark by the first head of the Nuclear Regulatory  Commission--Dixie Lee Ray.  Dr. Ray said, &quot;A viral American male has enough semen to impregnate all the women in the world.  The problem is with the delivery system.&quot;  I think Dr. Ray was referring to prospects of solar energy which was always mentioned by anti-nuclear activists as a replacement for nuclear power.Power from the sun is vastly greater than wind power and it is too costly for use on a  large scale.James Rust</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problems of large-scale wind energy reminds me of a long ago remark by the first head of the Nuclear Regulatory  Commission&#8211;Dixie Lee Ray.  Dr. Ray said, &#8220;A viral American male has enough semen to impregnate all the women in the world.  The problem is with the delivery system.&#8221;  I think Dr. Ray was referring to prospects of solar energy which was always mentioned by anti-nuclear activists as a replacement for nuclear power.</p><p>Power from the sun is vastly greater than wind power and it is too costly for use on a  large scale.</p><p>James Rust</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: archaeopteryx</title><link>http://www.globalwarming.org/2012/10/04/why-cant-we-get-all-our-electricity-from-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-71920</link> <dc:creator>archaeopteryx</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 20:08:12 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.globalwarming.org/?p=15199#comment-71920</guid> <description>This is excellent and to the point. The problem with too many wind generators is also highlighted in  http://www.welt.de/dieweltbewegen/article13798376/Oesterreich-rettet-deutsche-Stromversorgung.html.  Germany has 25,000 wind MW and claims having covered 7.6% of electicity demand in 2011. But, most probably, that does not correspond to 7.6% fuel substituiton, as stand-by backup consumes fuel, and revving up or cutting back increases inefficiency. The Dutch reported an annual fuel substitution equal to 4% of installed rated capacity. The Falklanders measured 4 to 8% fuel savings as a result of &quot;12% or 14% of electricity supply from wind&quot;.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is excellent and to the point. The problem with too many wind generators is also highlighted in <a href="http://www.welt.de/dieweltbewegen/article13798376/Oesterreich-rettet-deutsche-Stromversorgung.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.welt.de/dieweltbewegen/article13798376/Oesterreich-rettet-deutsche-Stromversorgung.html</a>.  Germany has 25,000 wind MW and claims having covered 7.6% of electicity demand in 2011. But, most probably, that does not correspond to 7.6% fuel substituiton, as stand-by backup consumes fuel, and revving up or cutting back increases inefficiency. The Dutch reported an annual fuel substitution equal to 4% of installed rated capacity. The Falklanders measured 4 to 8% fuel savings as a result of &#8220;12% or 14% of electricity supply from wind&#8221;.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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